03/21/1996 03:07 PM House HES

 HB 529 - APPROVE CENTRALIZED PUBLIC HEALTH LAB                              
                                                                               
 Number 082                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY announced the first order of business to come                 
 before the committee was HB 529.  She said this bill had been                 
 before the committee previously and asked if there was anyone in              
 the audience wishing to testify.  Hearing none, she closed public             
 testimony.  She inquired if the Department of Health & Social                 
 Services had any further testimony to present.                                
                                                                               
 ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant, Department of Health & Social             
 Services, said based on his belief that the issues and questions              
 most likely to be raised were going to be related to the financial            
 aspects of the project, he had asked the representative from                  
 Coopers & Lybrand in New York to address the committee on the study           
 that was done.                                                                
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY noted for the record that public testimony had been           
 re-opened.                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS joined the meeting at 5:09 p.m.                     
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said based on a 1994 printout of the Centralized              
 Option Lab Model, a strategic planning document from the Department           
 of Health & Social Services, the estimated cost for the project in            
 1994 was $13 million and she expressed concern that in two years              
 the cost had increased by $10 million.                                        
                                                                               
 Number 385                                                                    
                                                                               
 TOM LANE, Facilities Manager, Division of Administrative Services,            
 Department of Health & Social Services, said the original                     
 construction cost estimates were done in 1994 and did not include             
 the medical examiner's laboratory.  Since then, a follow up study             
 worked on by Coopers & Lybrand was completed in 1995 and because of           
 the two-year delay extra inflation costs were included, as well as            
 costs for the medical examiner.  He explained the department had              
 originally tried to get an appropriation last year, so another                
 year's inflation has also been added to the cost.  He acknowledged            
 it was a big jump in cost, but the increase included three years of           
 inflation, space for the medical examiner, which wasn't originally            
 included, and some changes in the financing costs.                            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY raised a concern about $2,931,000 for a medical               
 examiner.                                                                     
                                                                               
 MR. LANE said compared to the other costs, it was basically                   
 proportional to the space that would be required as proportional to           
 the rest of the facility.                                                     
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if a breakdown of the space was available.              
                                                                               
 MR. LANE said the department was roughly estimating about 4,400               
 square feet for the medical examiner and in the neighborhood of               
 22,300 square feet for the public health laboratory, itself.  He              
 explained that currently the lab is in two locations in Anchorage;            
 the office is at the state trooper building and the laboratory                
 space is at the crime detection laboratory.                                   
                                                                               
 Number 538                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE NORM ROKEBERG asked how many people were in the                
 medical examiner's office.                                                    
                                                                               
 GREGORY V. HAYES DrPH, Chief, Section of Laboratories, Division of            
 Public Health, Department of Health & Social Services, said he                
 wasn't really sure, but knew of two pathologists and clerical                 
 support.                                                                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked that information be provided to the             
 committee concerning the size of the space in relation to the                 
 personnel.  He inquired if human remains would also be kept in that           
 space.                                                                        
                                                                               
 DR. HAYES responded affirmatively.                                            
                                                                               
 MR. LANE said that Mr. Lindstrom indicated there are usually two or           
 three autopsy assistants, a pathologist and some clerical support.            
 They would provide the committee with a complete breakdown.                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked how many individuals are currently doing                
 autopsies?                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. LANE said he wasn't exactly certain how many people were                  
 involved.                                                                     
                                                                               
 MR. LINDSTROM responded two pathologists.                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS asked if the medical examiner space would           
 be in addition to the proposed building.                                      
                                                                               
 MR. LANE explained that something needs to be worked out for the              
 medical examiner in the future because currently they are using               
 borrowed space at the public safety building.  They viewed this as            
 an opportunity to "kill two birds with one stone" and also, it                
 would allow them to get a symbiotic relationship between the                  
 different laboratories.  He explained that the plan in the study              
 focused on the public health laboratories, but given that something           
 will need to be done with the medical examiner, this was an                   
 opportunity to consolidate those two programs.                                
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY again reiterated her concern that 44,000 square               
 feet was a large amount of space for a state with a population of             
 500,000 to 600,000.                                                           
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG calculated the cost to be about $680 a                
 square foot, assuming there were no service areas attached.                   
                                                                               
 MR. LANE said the original cost estimates were in the neighborhood            
 of $400 per square foot.  Costs would be added to that for                    
 equipment, administrative costs in terms of state employees who               
 would be working on it at the Department of Transportation & Public           
 Facilities and design costs.                                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG commented that he was in support of the               
 laboratory, but the costs were extraordinary.                                 
                                                                               
 MR. LANE interjected that laboratory space is very expensive.                 
                                                                               
 Number 785                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY thought it was irresponsible to ask for this kind             
 of increase.                                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. LINDSTROM noted the Department of Public Safety is very                   
 supportive of this project.  The current space for the medical                
 examiner is very limited and the Department of Public Safety very             
 much wants to utilize that space in the crime lab for other                   
 purposes, including the DNA (indisc.).                                        
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY read an excerpt from the 94 project budget, "Land             
 cost is considered to be $0, based on the use of state-owned                  
 property."  She maintained that a $10 million increase in two years           
 was not justifiable.                                                          
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE commented there were people on teleconference                  
 waiting to testify, but he felt there were too many unanswered                
 questions and asked that the bill be held over to the following               
 week.                                                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG pointed out the increase wasn't quite $10             
 million, because it included interest, etc.  He thought it was more           
 like $5.5 million.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 902                                                                    
                                                                               
 MICHAEL PRESS, Director, Coopers & Lybrand, said he was available             
 to answer specific questions with regard to the statistical                   
 information, the cost of the lab and savings, the differential in             
 savings between centralizing and possibly consolidating.                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS asked if Mr. Press had previously observed               
 construction costs of this type of facility and if he had compared            
 the proposed cost of this project with other projects.                        
                                                                               
 MR. PRESS responded he had found nothing unreasonable about the               
 cost estimates that accompanied this legislation for the type of              
 facility that is contemplated.                                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Press what a typical laboratory             
 with similar specifications would cost in the United States, what             
 percentage of Alaska cost adjustment was made for on this project,            
 and to give a breakdown on the difference between equipment and               
 specialized leasehold improvements.                                           
                                                                               
 MR. PRESS advised committee members that the costs presented were             
 not derived by Coopers & Lybrand per se.  They reviewed the costs             
 and found nothing unreasonable about them; however, the costs were            
 specified by the firm of Livingston Slone, Inc., of Anchorage in              
 conjunction with (indisc.) International, not as the contractor,              
 but consulting design architects.                                             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE commented he had a number of questions for Mr.           
 Press and inquired if Co-Chair Toohey's intention was to hold the             
 bill in committee.                                                            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY agreed there were a number of questions that needed           
 to be answered, so the bill would be held in committee.                       
                                                                               
 Number 1140                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE suggested that Mr. Lindstrom and the Department of             
 Health & Social Services could probably answer many of the                    
 individual questions.                                                         
                                                                               
 MR. LINDSTROM felt the department had attempted to furnish as much            
 information to individuals as possible, but it was his observation            
 there would be questions that simply would not be answered                    
 satisfactorily to some individuals.                                           
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY announced that HB 529 would be held in committee              
 and rescheduled at a later date.